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Depressing
Nov 20, 2015 20:46:50 GMT -5
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Post by thunderflash44 on Nov 20, 2015 20:46:50 GMT -5
You've just evaded my questions. Also, just by the small amount of timbering the PGC has done, it does not make grouse habitat as you say, creating and maintaining grouse habitat requires continued work, not just timbering, or as in most cases, timbering to create more pheasant fields. Just timbering doesn't mean grouse habitat. Habitat needs to be cut, pruned, evasive species removed, good species aided and promoted and be put on a rotation cutting schedule which the PGC does nothing of at all. Also, do not try pulling the chicken and the egg deal here. We HAD birds, no longer have habitat and no longer have birds due to the PGC improperly managing it's forests, exacerbating the predator problem, catering to bow hunting of deer and now blaming a dwindling grouse population on West Nile virus and habitat loss which the PGC does nothing to create habitat and maintain it. Three years ago the official statement of the PGC was that there we're no wolves or wild hybrids thereof in PA. NOW out of nowhere comes the coywolf, canis latrans var which admittedly the PGC states has lives here always as coyotes bred with wolves on their migration eastward. I find it difficult to take anything that you say seriously.
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Post by thunderflash44 on Nov 20, 2015 23:54:52 GMT -5
Dutch, Also You stated that there are "92,000 pheasant hunters" approximately. Well let's do a little math here... Last years resident license sales numbered collectively 943,836, nearly one million hunters, that could spend at least one day, one hour afield. Now out of your information of "92,000 pheasant hunters", that is WAY less than what I heard, or maybe I heard it wrong. 92,000 pheasant hunters only make up for just under 9.8% of the commonwealth's resident hunters (i didn't factor in non-resident sales). Maybe only 35% of small game hunters hunt pheasant which sounds a bit more on target with what the other hunter I met in the field told me. At any rate, according to Pennsylvania Outdoor News, it costs on average $29.10 for each pheasant and at a grand total of 220,000 pheasants! "220,000 birds will be released during the traditional fall pheasant hunting season, which continues through Nov. 29, and in advance of the winter pheasant hunting season, which runs Dec. 15-24 and Dec. 26-Feb. 21". Retrieved from blog.pennlive.com/pa-sportsman/2014/10/pennsylvania_game_commission_s.html Tally that up and the state has spent a whopping (US$ 29.10) x 220 000 = 6 402 000 US$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is absolute insanity! Do you not realize how many acres of habitat could be cleared for ruffed grouse habitat for that amount of money each year? What about even just half!? Let me tell you this, the PGC obviously purposefully is squandering their funding to feed pheasants to coywolves, or they simply really are just plain foolish! Our own state bird is in need of such attention and they go blowing nearly six and a half million on pheasants that only literally a bit over 9% of all licensed hunters in the State will pursue? This is maddening insanity! And you expect us to believe statements such as "Well its all about habitat when it comes to grouse" or "Well if there are no grouse then habitat doesnt make a difference" and now since neither of those statements get to the root of the problem, you begin answering questions with questions leaving yourselves looking as in plain sight just plain foolish. 6 and a half million on coyote food and roadkills..... then you wonder why every other state DNR laughs at you and why people who are actually serious about grouse hunting rarely come to PA to hunt grouse! Come up with a real hypothesis already. This west nile thing is bogus if you ask me. Birds in other states are already fighting it off and their populations are growing, and those states have a lot more mosquitoes and the winters are much harsher!!!
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Depressing
Nov 21, 2015 14:38:59 GMT -5
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Post by thunderflash44 on Nov 21, 2015 14:38:59 GMT -5
Dutch,
I am still awaiting your reply to my questions and posted statements.
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Post by Dutch on Nov 22, 2015 6:37:45 GMT -5
Dutch, I am still awaiting your reply to my questions and posted statements. Gee, I was hunting almost all day yesterday. I'm sorry if I'm not fast enough for you.....
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Post by Dutch on Nov 22, 2015 6:41:09 GMT -5
DCNR has 2.1 million acres. What are they doing to help grouse???
You see, there is lots of habitat being created by chainsaws, at no cost across SGL's and SF's.
You want invasives removes, special plantings etc. Guess what, you need a ton of money for that.
PGC and DCNR use herbicides, when practical to eliminate invasives in timbercuts, thus allowing for the regen of quality timber species, that benefit wildlife.
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Post by bowbum on Nov 22, 2015 9:06:18 GMT -5
Will cutting the season in half stop this trend? No way. Seeins how most folks can't hit them anyway. If the problem is biological/environmental, cutting the season will only let a small minority carry over, delaying the inevitable. My .02 You nailed it. Habitat is the primary ingredient. Disease may or may not be a secondary impact currently, but combined with less habitat, the results are predictable. Grouse are not over-hunted, and the predator factor is not new. The difference seems to be, with less protective habitat, predators have an easier go of it.
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Depressing
Nov 24, 2015 16:26:30 GMT -5
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Post by thunderflash44 on Nov 24, 2015 16:26:30 GMT -5
DCNR has 2.1 million acres. What are they doing to help grouse??? You see, there is lots of habitat being created by chainsaws, at no cost across SGL's and SF's. You want invasives removes, special plantings etc. Guess what, you need a ton of money for that. PGC and DCNR use herbicides, when practical to eliminate invasives in timbercuts, thus allowing for the regen of quality timber species, that benefit wildlife. I understand the size of the millions of acres,but I think you're missing my point. If they cut the spending on pheasants, they could easily make a huge difference in quality habitat that will benefit the ruffed grouse and just about every other bird and animal that lives here. Even if they staggered the pheasant spending to every other year and concentrated their money on creating ruffed grouse habitat, it would make a huge impact. But the PGC doesn't make any effort to specifically concentrate any time or money at all on the grouse. They could concentrate on creating massive amounts of grouse habitat by first, timbering and timber sales. Cutting the pheasant money and spend the million and a half dollars on planting trees and then let it go long enough to regenerate on it's own. They also don't seek out any national grants that exist to promote and aid certain species of wildlife such as the state bird. There are so many avenues and approaches in plain sight that they ignore and then come up with other excuses that are unsubstantial. If land can be managed for farm raised pheasants, then there should be no excuse as to why the same is not being done for ruffed grouse. Most of the Allegheny National Forest is mature forest. That is just one example. Take the million and a half dollars for one year wasted on pheasants and concentrate it there. The next year spend it on pheasants. The following year, spend the million and a half on another area. It is because they don't do this why our grouse population is fallen so deep into the hole.
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Post by Dutch on Nov 24, 2015 18:05:46 GMT -5
The ANF is under Federal control. The PGC cannot tell them when or how much to timber.
PGC DOES get grants that DO help out native species.
Reducing the number of pheasants reduces economy of scale. Price per bird goes UP, less efficient.
I am ALL for a pheasant stamp for adult hunters, $10-$15, to defray the cost of the program.
The PGC, IIRC, already spends over 8 million on habitat improvements, but that is a very old figure.
So much of EVERY doe tag sold MUST be spent on habitat, as well as so much from every hunting license. Its a law here in the state.
I think you should probably spend some time or ask questions of your local PGC Land Manager to see just what they do do as far as habitat.
Now, if you think I'm some huge PGC supporter, I am not. I just want facts brought out.
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Post by dougell on Nov 25, 2015 11:22:58 GMT -5
Where the right forest composition is present,the PGC does work on grouse habitat.They rotate grouse blocks on SGL 77 every 10 years and they just stopped stocking pheasants on the one section of SGL 331 to start concentrating on creating grouse habitat.
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