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Post by Dutch on Oct 17, 2012 16:14:18 GMT -5
Gal will be reporting live from the meeting tonight.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 17, 2012 18:04:35 GMT -5
Just starting. W cal. Fillmore Gary Moore Rick watts Tim Smail and others here
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 17, 2012 18:07:48 GMT -5
Oct 4 suspect positive confirmed oct 9th
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 17, 2012 18:08:26 GMT -5
Cwd power point. I will post notes latrr
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 17, 2012 18:35:52 GMT -5
Great questions from audience
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 17, 2012 18:36:13 GMT -5
Not mine either!
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 17, 2012 18:47:07 GMT -5
Trace out going back five to ten years. Deer are constantly moved and frequently are at 4 to 5 farms.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 17, 2012 20:01:48 GMT -5
More than 100 farms will be involved in trace back
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Post by dennyf on Oct 17, 2012 21:57:54 GMT -5
Spoke with a few deer farmers outside afterwards (and their vet).
Started the conversation with the possibility that PDA wasn't doing enough to monitor/enforce the regs on deer farmers and that I thouight it had been a mistake to transfer deer farming to PDA, from PGC.
That upset one of them. He said PDA does a pretty good job of monitoring their operations and he'd had an unannounced visit not long before CWD was discovered in the area.
Got the impression that they're a bit shell-shocked by recent events?
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Post by neville on Oct 17, 2012 22:15:46 GMT -5
ABC27 and Fox43 both had decent stories on the meeting. I assume coverage will be on their sites shortly.
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Post by neville on Oct 17, 2012 22:33:47 GMT -5
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Post by dennyf on Oct 17, 2012 22:35:10 GMT -5
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 4:45:27 GMT -5
May as well type out large chunks of notes here on the CWD Outbreak.
Matt Meals from the Department of Agriculture confirmed Chronic Wasting Disease was discovered in a suspect positive on October 4th. It was sent to a national lab for confirmation, and it was confirmed on October 9th.
CWD Prion effects deer, elk, moose, and other cervids in the deer family. It is spread through direct and indirect transmission.
Its from a family of diseases called TSEs.
Transmittable encephalopathy is the form found in farmed mink although none have been discovered positive in the wild.
Mad cow disease (BSE) has the potential to become a varient Creutzfeldt Jacob Syndrome
(v)CJS
Mad cow can be spread to ner anything by injection directly to a brain. There is no species barrier.
The prion is an infectious protein that transforms healthy proteins into prions.
Clinical Signs and Symptoms:
Lowered ears, drooping head, blank expression, excessive salivation and thirst, grinding teeth, weight loss.
These symptoms can be identical to other causes. EHD, car accidents, and abcesses can all mimic the clinical symptoms, so testing is critical.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 4:50:46 GMT -5
The prion can persist in the soil for at least 18 years. There is no reliable live test. It can take up to 5 years before expression; although the average is 12 to 24 months
Highly contagious with males being more susceptible due to their soils eating behavior.
Spread through contaminated soil, urine, milk, feces, saliva, and direct and indirect contact.
The Prion can be killed with super heat @ 2200 degrees for 15 minutes. Yes, you read that correctly.
Populations are naturally reduced over time. 47% of mule deer in Colorado currently test positive for the disease. 24% of WI deer re infected.
Prions can be excreted for at least 11 months prior to the deer showing any clinical signs.
A deer farmer asked if other deer can pick up the infectious prions from soil- the answer is YES. Its very likely.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 4:57:50 GMT -5
Exposure Risk Factors
Areas adjacent to CWD known positives and captive herds
Areas with a history of receipt of imports from CWD infected areas.
If CWD is in an area- it got there one of two ways. It walked across the border, or it came in a truck (live or dead)
Urine based lures and attractants are exposure risk factors.
Amplification Risk Factors
High cervid (deer) density
Adams County currently has 30 DPSM
Areas with a contaminated environment
Baiting or any factor that causes deer to congregate.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 5:18:11 GMT -5
The West Virginia /Maryland map was shown. CWD is 10.1 miles from 4 Pennsylvania Counties where intense surveillance is ongoing.
A national map showed a clear correlation between positive CWD farms and deer in a wild herd. Pennsylvania only requires a SINGLE fence. That does not afford strong protection as wild deer and captive deer frequently interact through fences. MORE ON THIS LATER.
The Disease Management Area (DMA) is based on yearling buck dispersal. Ten mile radius were drawn at each known place the infected deer lived or visited (breeding) and that is how they came up with the DMA. Roads and landscape features were picked as easy to find boundaries for hunter convenience.
The incubation period for CWD can be up to 5 years before presenting of clinical signs.
The PGC has tested 38,000 deer throughout Pennsylvania. It is detectable in the incubation stage.
The PGC regional office phone number for suspect live wild deer is 814-643-1831.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 5:32:06 GMT -5
What can be done
PGC will be testing all wild deer in the disease management area.
Response Plan from Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture (PDA)
This has elicited a level one reponse.
Contact and engage task force sosisting of animal diagnostic labs, state vets, DEP, Dept of Health, PGC and Dr Walt Cottrell, PSU, USDA, USGS, AAPHIS and others.
Dr David Grizwald from PDA said the PDA is using a trace out to determine the source of CWD.
The deer was born in Lycoming and transfered to the York facility at approximately one month of age. It was sent for breeding (4th farm enters quarrantine here) and then shipped to the Adams County Farm
Deer farmers in PA tend to move deer quite often, and its common place for a deer to live or visit 4 to 5 facilities over the life of the deer
A quick and dirty trace out - a lot of farms- 100 or more are likely to be involved by the time its over.
Live and dead animals are moved
They will be going back ten years to determine where prions may have been in the soil-
The statement was made that this could be HUGE. Could there be more than 100 farms? Sure.
The fence is DOWN STILL at the facility in York county; giving free range deer in the area access to the prions living in the soil. The PDA is NOW working with the PA Game Commission to get a fence back up at that facility. As I understand it, State Rep. Dan Moul paid a visit to the Gov's office urging PDA to get the fence back up.
As is typical, the PGC will be cooperating in the effort to replace the fence. Kudos folks.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 5:37:00 GMT -5
There is an obligation on the part of farmers to report deaths if symptoms of CWD are present; however; not every deer farmer is forthcoming.
Of the three listed sites at the Adams/York Co DMA, they will be looking at artificial breeding, where the samples came from or went to, semen shipping, urine sales and shipping in BOTH DIRECTIONS included.
A question was asked regarding feces and trailers in transit deer. It has the possibility of spreading the disease, yes.
What are the requirements for record keeping and are they accurate
There is a certified option and a voluntary monitoring. There is inter and intrastate commerce. Farmers who don't participate in the trade do not have to have as complete of records as those who do.
Not every farmer does a good job with compliance.
Monitoring has NOT increased ourside of the zone.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 5:38:07 GMT -5
BAck to Cal Dubrock. (the meeting went from PDA to PGC to audience questions) If it deals with a farmed deer, it was PDA- if it deals with a wild deer, it was the PGC.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 5:49:53 GMT -5
An executive order was issued declaring the area as a DMA (Disease Management Area) which places restrictions effecting a 600 square mile area.
Some of the restrictions include (But are not limited to)
Mandatory checks starting in rifle season. It will be voluntary through archery season, as not all hunters have the word yet.
Prohibition on moving high risk parts.
PGC will cover the costs of testing and notify each hunter of the results.
It will cost between $35 and $60 with total costs for the PGC into the hundreds of thousands of dollars with check stations, etc.
There is a ban on all urine based lures and on feeding.
There is a ban on transportation of menagerie (captive animals)
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 5:51:17 GMT -5
Map of the containment zone
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 5:52:22 GMT -5
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 6:07:25 GMT -5
Questions from the audience and answers
What parts can be tested? Lymph nodes and obex (brain stem). The lymph nodes can be tested longer than the obex, with testing up to a month after death. BUT, that can be limited by temperature. Not as long in sun.
There is a restiction on taxidermy and butchering for trasport of high risk parts outside of DMA. The check station will be at State Game Lands 249 where hunters may debone their deer and PGC staff will assist. They will also help the hunters cape the deer for taxidermy.
PGC will keep all suspect/high risk parts for incinerator or the landfill within the DMA.
Processors had questions and suggestions - please have a tag on the deer that shows the deer was checked. Can processors and taxidermists be trained to collect deer parts to increase compliance within the DMA.? PGC may do that. The suggestion was well received.
Ag added they can check any deer for a fee; but the PGC warned hunters if they want to keep the rack to remove it prior to submitting to Ag. Ag will NOT return parts.
Self-processors should check deer and debone at the check station or bring the high risk parts to the check station for disposal. Processors will be provided dumpsters for those parts.
Use caution when quartering deer as it may expose prions.
Ban saws; sterilization of processing equipement; grinders all stressed by the processors themsleves.
Check station will be open 8 AM to 8 PM
The PGC expects harvest in the DMA will be 1500 to 2000 animals with 2/3 of them taken during the rifle season. This is based on historical harvest figures.
Hunters can take the caped head, leaving the brain and skull.
This will be a FIVE YEAR containment period if no new cases present.
New tags will be issued to hunters who bring in a non-consumable deer.
A gentleman commended the PGC. He lives next to SGL 243 and he urged public education.
Hunters asked about wounded deer that are never recovered due to factors we're all familiar with. Had the legislature passed the leashed tracking dog bill; hunter loss would be lower and the possible wild infecteds would not be laying in the woods unrecovered.
The Adams Co Federation was present.
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 6:59:47 GMT -5
Its way too early in the trace out to tell how many farms will be involved in all, but it will include deer inside and outside of the state because of the inter and intrastate transport of the deer.
More than 100 farms are identified in the initial trace-out; and Ag warns ALL Deer farmers in Pennsylvania that it is NOT WISE to buy, sell, trade, etc as only 4 farms are currently quarantined; and the notices have not yet been sent to other farms.
They told the farmers that their farm may already be pending a quarantine order, or the farm they trade with may be. Its best to not do anything, sit tight and wait until they are done with the trace-out.
The initial trace out is huge. PDA is awestruck at the amount of commerce that occurs on these deer farming operations.
All sales and trades put all deer farms at risk. Now is NOT the time to buy.
I can't believe PDA said this, but they said its "safer to sell". Uh, NO. How about a ban on all buying/selling/trading until all farms are identified.
Carl said they have applied to the Governor's office for a supplemental budget to pay for testing. Our hunting license dollars are paying for this folks, and its going to run into the 100s of thousands of dollars
Hunters asked ag for lock-down restrictions on deer farms and asked that a double fencing requirement be added as a minimal precautionary measure.
Hunters warned that bedding should be incinerated or land-filled as they contain feces, urine, blood, etc and will contain prions. Currently, bedding material can be thrown outside of the fence, attracting deer who have been known to feed on the feces which can contain high amounts of proteins and minerals because of the supplemental feeding inside of the fence.
IMPORTANT:::::::::: THERE IS ONLY A FIVE YEAR (FEDERAL) REQUIRMENT FOR A FENCE TO REMAIN ONCE ALL DEER INSIDE THE FENCE HAVE BEEN IRRADICATED. THE PRIONS LIVE FOR 18 YEARS OR LONGER. WE NEED LEGISLATION TO CHANGE THAT REQUIREMENT TO AT LEAST 20 YEARS.
End of meeting notes. I'm sure others can fill in the blanks I missed. I'll try to post the list of questions and answers to those as well- as I was able to talk to the Deputy Secretary from ag after the meeting. That is where I learned of the inadequate fencing requirement
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Post by galthatfishes on Oct 18, 2012 7:50:11 GMT -5
One more point. There are 25,000 captive cervids on just about 1,100 farms.
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