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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 16, 2022 13:46:30 GMT -5
LOL.I have a reading comprehension problem?It's a hot mess and we have too many bears but you have no solutions,don't hunt bear in Pa and have probably never even seen a bear in Pa. You bring up comprehension so show me where in this thread did I say we have too many bears? Did I feel we had too many in the past? absolutely. Do I believe that now? Nope. And for the record, I have seen quite a few bears in Pa. I actually saw my first Pa bear in northern Butler County long before bears were known to be there in any numbers. I actually saw 4 bears there. I have seen two in Greene County also. Again, what I said is I believe that the bear seasons structures could be streamlined. Whether a problem exists or not is subjective in nature. Just as orange regs used to be. Some thought they were fine and others thought they could be streamlined. You have repeatedly tried to take my comments about the our current season structures and turn it into a resource arguement which I am not making.
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Nov 16, 2022 13:51:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure what lead to the decline of bear hunters in 2G and northern 4D. I suspect that a lot of it is due to the expanding bear population in non traditional area, it's sure not due to less hunters or the start on hunting on Saturday + Sunday according to the data of license sale. At the same time some of that increase could be the result of early muzzleloader and archery season. In 2019 the license sales by 25,00 residents and 8,000 non Residents. There was another jump in 2020 by an additional 20,000 , last year 2021 there was a reduction of 5,000 license counting both resident and non, even though the non resident increased 1,000 over 2020. There had been a annual increase in licenses up until 2015 to 175,000 licenses sold, remained constant until 2019, Saturday owner + Sunday, with a jump to 202,000 licenses. It added another increase to 220,419 in 2020, but decreased to 215,219 total sales in 2021. Most camps in my area of 2G still have bear hunters for rifle season. My own camp is full as far as sleeping goes. My two grandsons will needing to sleep together in a queen size bed , my son on the couch, he's usually there anyway, myself on a lazy boy, which I sometime also sleep on , along with a couple of other hunters on easy boys. Should have around 15 + or - hunters for the weekend, including those that just come for the day. Come Monday we will either hunt with those we have left or combine our camp with another camp or two. Depending on the outcome Monday we will either go home late Monday or Tuesday morning. Sounds like it will be a fun bear season at camp this year. Now hopefully we can just find some bear in bear season, instead of deer season, and no one gets lost unlike last year.🤣
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Post by dougl on Nov 16, 2022 13:54:47 GMT -5
You're creating a problem that doesn't exist.What could be streamlined?They added more days to the archery bear season and added bear to the early inline,old guy,youth season and started bear season the weekend before the traditional season.WTH needs to be streamlined?We have more opportunities than ever to hunt bear in an easy to understand format.Just make sure if you're hunting them with a fiearm,you have to wear orange.
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Post by dougl on Nov 16, 2022 14:11:06 GMT -5
I'm not sure what lead to the decline of bear hunters in 2G and northern 4D. I suspect that a lot of it is due to the expanding bear population in non traditional area, it's sure not due to less hunters or the start on hunting on Saturday + Sunday according to the data of license sale. At the same time some of that increase could be the result of early muzzleloader and archery season. In 2019 the license sales by 25,00 residents and 8,000 non Residents. There was another jump in 2020 by an additional 20,000 , last year 2021 there was a reduction of 5,000 license counting both resident and non, even though the non resident increased 1,000 over 2020. There had been a annual increase in licenses up until 2015 to 175,000 licenses sold, remained constant until 2019, Saturday owner + Sunday, with a jump to 202,000 licenses. It added another increase to 220,419 in 2020, but decreased to 215,219 total sales in 2021. Most camps in my area of 2G still have bear hunters for rifle season. My own camp is full as far as sleeping goes. My two grandsons will needing to sleep together in a queen size bed , my son on the couch, he's usually there anyway, myself on a lazy boy, which I sometime also sleep on , along with a couple of other hunters on easy boys. Should have around 15 + or - hunters for the weekend, including those that just come for the day. Come Monday we will either hunt with those we have left or combine our camp with another camp or two. Depending on the outcome Monday we will either go home late Monday or Tuesday morning. Sounds like it will be a fun bear season at camp this year. Now hopefully we can just find some bear in bear season, instead of deer season, and no one gets lost unlike last year.🤣 There's no shortage of huge groups around here that pound everything for three or four days.Bear season is the only time of the year that I hunt with more than just my son or maybe one other person.It's a fun time with plenty of exercise,lot's of laughs and getting to see new country.Usually a bear or three dies and that's when the fun stops.The group I usually hunt with are going to Wyoming tomorrow for an elk hunt so I'll just poke around locally where I know some bears are hanging out.For the first time in history,I may convert my son from a shooter to a pusher.
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 16, 2022 14:26:01 GMT -5
Doug, so where did I say in this thread we currently have too many bears?
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Post by dougl on Nov 16, 2022 14:30:31 GMT -5
You didn't but you've said it many times in the past.You seem to have a real issue with our bear management but you don't even hunt them or anywhere near them.
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Post by Dutch on Nov 16, 2022 14:43:00 GMT -5
LOL.I have a reading comprehension problem?It's a hot mess and we have too many bears but you have no solutions,don't hunt bear in Pa and have probably never even seen a bear in Pa. Let's ask the biologists to recommend some solutions for a problem that doesn't exist lol.I hope you get that commissioner job. The potential problem with the season structure is the over harvest of females. As I said, Ternent said a while back, that it needed to be monitored. That early season surprised them at how effective it was. Now, the objective was to reduce the bear population, and that's occuring. Not sure how far they want to go tho. If they get to their goal, will they restrict the early season? Almost have to.
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 16, 2022 15:05:53 GMT -5
You didn't but you've said it many times in the past. So thanks for admitting that. I have said that in the past and the numbers have been brought down recently so I no longer believe that in case you want to misrepresent my position in a future discussion.
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 16, 2022 15:09:09 GMT -5
The potential problem with the season structure is the over harvest of females. Yep. That is one of the potential issues with the season structures as they exist now. That is why I said I would like to hear from the biologists on some recommendations to streamline while protecting the resource. But Doug throws the resource angle into it while insisting the season structures are fine and people need to quite whining............
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Post by dougl on Nov 16, 2022 15:28:07 GMT -5
Wanting to hear from the biologists is one thing.Being overly dramatic by calling our bear management a "hot mess" is another thing.For years you screamed that bears were overprotected and we had too many,despite not ever seeing a live bear in this state.Now that they did exactly as you wanted by lowering the population some,it's a hot mess lol.I just find it odd that a guy has such strong opinions about something he's never been around.You still have me perplexed on what needs stream lined.It seems to me like it was a perfectly executed very stream lined plan.They gave hunters extra opportunities and got the desired management rule.If you consider that a hot mess,well,I don't know what to say.
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Post by CoureurDeBois on Nov 16, 2022 15:50:52 GMT -5
I truly don't see the need for the early muzzleloader, along with the youth, old geezer, which I is one, rifle season for bears. Then again I don't see the need for any season that gives special preference to anyone. I also believe that we hunters can control the population without the early season. I feel that season does harvest too many female bears, and it also wastes too many bears that are harvested. That waste comes from spoiled meat due to too warm of temperatures, which we had the past two years, when harvested. "No I can't prove it, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it."😁 Female usually den in mid to late November in Pennsylvania. The under lying factor is food supply. Once a bear is expending more energy looking for food than it can gain from the food found , it dens. Cubs born the previous January usually den with their mother, but is not required for survival. I do not know if the total kill so far this year, at 1450, is under, near or above last years harvest at this point in time. But I will be surprised if this seasons harvest, especially rifle season in the northern tier, is anywhere near the numbers from the last two years. This being due to early denning from the lack of acorns, due to the Gypsy Moth Caterpillar.
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Post by moosemike on Nov 16, 2022 16:14:59 GMT -5
Wanting to hear from the biologists is one thing.Being overly dramatic by calling our bear management a "hot mess" is another thing.For years you screamed that bears were overprotected and we had too many,despite not ever seeing a live bear in this state.Now that they did exactly as you wanted by lowering the population some,it's a hot mess lol.I just find it odd that a guy has such strong opinions about something he's never been around.You still have me perplexed on what needs stream lined.It seems to me like it was a perfectly executed very stream lined plan.They gave hunters extra opportunities and got the desired management rule.If you consider that a hot mess,well,I don't know what to say. Apparently you do know what to say. Because you keep saying it
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 16, 2022 16:43:47 GMT -5
For years you screamed that bears were overprotected and we had too many,despite not ever seeing a live bear in this state. Lets get back to the comprehension thing again. I did say in this thread that I have seen 6 wild lack bears in Pa so are you not actually reading posts are you just intentionally trying to mislead folks again? This is twice now in a 2 page thread you have lied about what I said. Actually what I said were our "season structures" were a hot mess.
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Post by dougl on Nov 16, 2022 16:45:18 GMT -5
How so?I mean really,what's the issue?
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 16, 2022 16:58:46 GMT -5
How so?I mean really,what's the issue? Lying or purposely misrepresenting someone's position shouldn't be an issue?
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Post by dougl on Nov 16, 2022 17:04:19 GMT -5
I have no clue what your position is,other than you think something is a hot mess.Maybe it's just a hot flash Gene.That happens in your early 50's.
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 16, 2022 17:44:33 GMT -5
I have no clue what your position is,other than you think something is a hot mess.Maybe it's just a hot flash Gene.That happens in your early 50's. Well I said I have seen 6 bears in Pa then you said just a few posts later I have never seen any. You also claimed in this thread about our current season structures that I feel that we have too many bears, which I have not recently said since the PGC reduced the population. It is my position that our current season structures need looking at for various reasons. One is they are rather convoluted and the other is the concern in many circles about the number of sows being harvested. Its pretty simple if you actually read what I write instead of lying about what I write.
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Post by Dutch on Nov 16, 2022 20:56:11 GMT -5
I have no clue what your position is,other than you think something is a hot mess.Maybe it's just a hot flash Gene.That happens in your early 50's. He stated what he thought was a hot mess. It was pretty clear.
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Post by rusty on Nov 17, 2022 6:11:52 GMT -5
Anyway, the snow should make the kill over the first couple days of the rifle bear season pretty high.
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Post by Dutch on Nov 17, 2022 6:39:56 GMT -5
Anyway, the snow should make the kill over the first couple days of the rifle bear season pretty high. And easier dragging. Lol
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Post by moosemike on Nov 17, 2022 6:54:39 GMT -5
Anyway, the snow should make the kill over the first couple days of the rifle bear season pretty high. Not been my experience. Everytime the ground is white in Bear season the shooting is way down to nonexistent. And I say that having shot my bear in 6" of snow
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Post by Loggy on Nov 17, 2022 7:28:43 GMT -5
I was in the Harrisburg/Camp Hill area yesterday & was amazed how much snow was still clinging to some roofs!! Here in lower York County we got a spattering of a few brief flakes. My guess in Sullivan County & other NE tier areas there's gonna be plenty of cover least on the mountain tops with current cold temps holding through the weekend into next week??
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Post by ridgecommander on Nov 17, 2022 7:30:52 GMT -5
Calling for heavy lake affect this weekend in NW PA.
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Post by rusty on Nov 17, 2022 7:58:34 GMT -5
From 1-2 inches around Titusville to 1-2 feet around Edinboro, Wattsburg and Corry.
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Post by dougl on Nov 17, 2022 9:06:51 GMT -5
Anyway, the snow should make the kill over the first couple days of the rifle bear season pretty high. And easier dragging. Lol Conventional wisdom would say so but bear hair is course and creates friction.They don't slide over snow like a deer does.Some sort of sled would make it better..We killed a 150lber a few years ago on about 4" of snow.It was a level 1.97 mile drag on a rails to trail.Two kids carried the rifles and three adults dragged the bear.It took us hours.
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